Ce document est un miroir du site www.loosechangeguide.com malheureusement disparu, le nom de domaine n'ayant pas été renouvelé. Elle a été restaurée à partir de web.archive.org.
www.loosechangeguide.com est une mine d'informations permettant de décrypter la thèse conspirationniste des attentats du 11 septembre 2001. Il répond point par point aux arguments exposés par Loose Change 2. La reproduction de ce site a pour objectif d'en assurer la pérennité.
Les textes surlignés en jaune, et parfois précédées du repère temporel HH:MM:SS, sont la transcription de l'audio de Loose Change 2, à laquelle contre-argumente l'auteur de www.loosechangeguide.com.
Les textes surlignés en bleu sont des extraits de documents cités par l'auteur.
And debunking of various 9/11 conspiracy theories
Sections of this document :
- Section I : Introduction, The First Events
- Section II : AA Flight 77 and the Pentagon
- Section III : The World Trade Center
- Section IV : United Flight 93 (this page)
- Section V : Flight Recorders, Cell Phone Calls, Miscellany
- Section VI : Appendices
10:06 AM. Shanksville, Pennsylvania. Flight 93 was en route from New Jersey to California with 45 passengers,
When it went off course at 8:56 over Cleveland, Ohio. According to the official story, Flight 93 was headed for the White House
Actually, that's Moussaoui's story. Remember him ? The terrorist who admits to being involved ? When it was overpowered by a group of passengers and crashed in Shanksville, Pennsylvania.
No, the official story doesn't say it was overpowered. Out of all the events of 9-11, the one that has caused the most confusion is Flight 93.
Confusion amongst whom? People who habitually ignore mountains of evidence? It was shot down, it wasn't shot down.
Speculation. However, evidence suggests that perhaps Flight 93 was nowhere near Shanksville.
No evidence suggests that. 95% of the plane was recovered near Shanksville. Positive ID was made of all passengers. Personal effects of nearly all were recovered. Large parts of the plane were recovered, including most of one engine."I wanna get quickly to Chris Chaniki he's a photographer with the Pittsburgh affiliate a Fox affiliate. He was back there just a couple minutes ago and Chris, I've seen the pictures, it looks like there's nothing there, except for a hole in the ground."
"Basically that's right, the only thing you can see from; where we were was a big gouge in the earth"
"From where we were." he was not an investigator. "and some broken trees."
Right. Because aircraft parts hit them. "You could see some people working, walking around in the area, but from where we can see there wasn't much left."
That's right, from where they could see. "Any large pieces of debris at all?"
"No, there was nothing. Nothing, that you can distinguish that a plane had crashed there. "
"Nothing you can distinguish?" There were pieces scattered all over the crash site. Nearly an entire engine was nearby. "No, there was nothing. Nothing, that you can distinguish that a plane had crashed there. "
"Smoke, fire?" "Nothing, it was absolutely quiet, it was actually very quiet."
When was he there?Photos show a mushroom cloud when the plane hit. Eyewitnesses confirmed. Photos show smoke in the crater and in the woods nearby.
"Nothing going on down there, no smoke, no fire, just a couple of people walking around "
When was he there?Meanwhile, several video shots in "Loose Change" show smoke coming from the widespread wreckage, and the caption says "United confirms Fl 93 crashed near Pittsburgh."
"They look like part of the NTSB crew. Walking around, looking at the pieces."
Huh. Thought there were no pieces? "How big would you say that hole was?"
A better question, which would take time to answer, is how deep was the hole? It was 35 feet deep. The ground was very soft there: it was landfill over a defunct coal mine. "From my estimates, I would guess it was probably around 20 to 15 feet long, and probably about 10 feet wide."
How close was he ? Clearly not close. "What could you see on the ground, if anything, other than dirt and ash and...?"
"You couldn't see anything. You just see dirt, ash and people walking around, broken trees."
Broken trees? Might be a clue..."You couldn't see anything. You just see dirt, ash and people walking around, broken trees."
Wally Miller, a Somerset County coroner, told the Houston Chronicle "It looked like somebody just dropped a bunch of metal out of the sky."
Simile. And it certainly contradicts the photographer's report. The coroner got close.In the Washington Post...
"It looked like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped trash into it."
Simile "It looked like someone took a scrap truck, dug a 10-foot ditch and dumped trash into it."
And as for the passengers...
00:58:05
"I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."
Totally misleading. About 1500 human remains were recovered. "I stopped being coroner after about 20 minutes, because there were no bodies there."
In the Pittsburg Review...
It's the "Pittsburgh Tribune-Review." "I have not, to this day, seen a single drop of blood. Not a drop."
But around 1500 human remains were recovered, and all passengers and crew were identified. It would seem that, on one day, for the second time in history, an entire plane, along with its passengers, disappeared upon impact.
False. 95% of the plane was found. "...No signs of any survivors at the site of the Nigerian plane crash"
Nigeria? Is that where flight 93 is? "that is the word from the Red Cross, which has a representative on site. The first pictures of the crash scene show a large crater where the Boeing 737 broke into the small pieces. The plane crashed shortly after taking off from Lagos in a heavy storm. The flight was going to the Nigerian capital of Abuja and was believed to be carrying some senior Nigerian officials."
Wow, thanks for that Nigerian plane crash info. And how does this apply to flight 93? You might have talked to a single person who was involved in the investigation, beyond taking a statement by Wally Miller completely out of context. That wouldn't have killed you, would it? So if Flight 93 didn't go down in Shanksville, then where?
Ugh. Not this again. You may think we "jumped the shark" long ago. Nope. This is my favorite highlight of "Loose Change." I'm glad you warned me to be ready, because I might have fallen down laughing and hurt myself. What I'd really like to know, though, is why the first version of "Loose Change" has the plane crashing in PA and includes several eyewitness reports to that effect? Dylan Avery even ends that version with the words "Let's Roll." Still writing fiction, huh, Dylan?
Cleveland, apparently
At 11:43 on September 11th, WCPO, a local TV station in Cincinatti, Ohio, reported that two planes landed at Cleveland Hopkins Airport due to a bomb threat. United Airlines identified one of the planes as Flight 93.
And immediately corrected the error. AP had reported this, then within minutes pulled the link to the story, but failed to pull the story itself right away. That's how conspiracy-mongers picked up on it. And here we are in 2006, with fools still clinging to their fantasies. Source. And from the 9-11 Commission Report :
Right after the Pentagon was hit, NEADS learned of another possible hijacked aircraft. It was an aircraft that in fact had not been hijacked at all. After the second World Trade Center crash, Boston Center managers recognized that both aircraft were transcontinental 767 jetliners that had departed Logan Airport. Remembering the "we have some planes" remark, Boston Center guessed that Delta 1989 might also be hijacked. Boston Center called NEADS at 9:41 and identified Delta 1989, a 767 jet that had left Logan Airport for Las Vegas, as a possible hijack. NEADS warned the FAA's Cleveland Center to watch Delta 1989.The Command Center and FAA headquarters watched it too. During the course of the morning, there were multiple erroneous reports of hijacked aircraft. The report of American 11 heading south was the first; Delta 1989 was the second.
NEADS never lost track of Delta 1989, and even ordered fighter aircraft from Ohio and Michigan to intercept it. The flight never turned off its transponder. NEADS soon learned that the aircraft was not hijacked, and tracked Delta 1989 as it reversed course over Toledo, headed east, and landed in Cleveland.156 But another aircraft was heading toward Washington, an aircraft about which NORAD had heard nothing: United 93.
NEADS never lost track of Delta 1989, and even ordered fighter aircraft from Ohio and Michigan to intercept it. The flight never turned off its transponder. NEADS soon learned that the aircraft was not hijacked, and tracked Delta 1989 as it reversed course over Toledo, headed east, and landed in Cleveland.156 But another aircraft was heading toward Washington, an aircraft about which NORAD had heard nothing: United 93.
Are you confused?
No.Well, it gets better.
It could hardly get worse. Check it out.
I did. At approximately 10 AM, Cleveland Hopkins Airport was evacuated, amidst rumors that a hijacked plane was going to land. That was flight 1989. Passengers had to leave, but couldn't drive. They had to walk or hitchhike.
Buses weren't allowed to leave. People were sent home. According to Associated Press and local Ohio papers, one plane landed at approximately 10:45.
But Delta Airlines confirmed that their plane, Delta 1989, landed in Cleveland at 10:10.
Air traffic controllers believed they had a hijacked plane in the air over Ohio on Sept. 11. They just didn't know which plane. During tense moments that morning at Cleveland Air Route Traffic Control Center, the first guess was that Delta flight 1989 was hijacked, not United Airlines flight 93. "We knew right away we had a problem. The first thought was, 'is that Delta 1989?'" said Rick Kettell, manager of the Federal Aviation Administration's busiest regional center.Source Buses weren't allowed to leave. People were sent home. According to Associated Press and local Ohio papers, one plane landed at approximately 10:45.
But Delta Airlines confirmed that their plane, Delta 1989, landed in Cleveland at 10:10.
Therefore, Flight 93 landed at Cleveland at approximately 10:45.
Authorities searched Delta 1989 for over two hours, and passengers were questioned individually.
A passenger on Delta 1989 reports on her ordeal. The Plain Dealer reported that the plane was evacuated at 12:30. But the Akron Beacon reports that a plane was evacuated at 11:15. Which would make that Flight 93.
No, that would make you an idiot. Mayor White reported that the plane had 200 passengers.
More Pulitzer-quality reporting here. Look at the screenshot. This information is hearsay gleaned from an internet chat room on 9/11! The person who posted it at least had the sense to say, "Very early to tell exactly what is going on." But to Dylan Avery? It's the final word.
But a passenger from Delta 1989 describes "60 or so" passengers.
How many were there? Did you check? No, of course you didn't. I did. There were 78 people on board, 69 passengers and 9 crew. So at 11:15, 200 or so passengers were released from Flight 93.
That's odd, because flight 93 crashed in Pennsylvania over an hour earlier. The passenger from Delta 1989 states that she was taken into FAA headquarters. But other reports say that passengers were brought into the NASA Glenn Research Center.
What reports? Every report I've seen from people who were there says it was FAA. Located near the west end of the airport, which had already been evacuated.
So, to sum up.
Delta 1989 landed at 10:10, was evacuated at 12:30, almost two and a half hours later, and 69 passengers were taken to FAA Headquarters. Flight 93 landed at 10:45 and evacuated within a half hour,
Jeez, I wonder why the air traffic controllers in the tower didn't notice that. None of them claim that flight 93 landed at their airport. So, to sum up.
Delta 1989 landed at 10:10, was evacuated at 12:30, almost two and a half hours later, and 69 passengers were taken to FAA Headquarters. Flight 93 landed at 10:45 and evacuated within a half hour,
200 or so passengers quickly taken to an empty NASA Research Center.
And then what? Mission to Mars, perhaps? Why did it take 140 minutes to evacuate 69 passengers, when 200 were evacuated in a half hour?
Have you forgotten that I'm keeping a running total of your screw-up, by category? We can assume that the passengers from Delta 1989 are safe somewhere.
01:01:16
The question remains, what happened to the 200 or so passengers from Flight 93?
All 44 people on flight 93 died. The question remains, what happened to the 200 or so passengers from Flight 93?
It's interesting to note that the combined total of all the passengers from all four flights is 198.
Okay... Or 243. Depending on who you ask.
I asked the guy at the newsstand, and he said it was 674. Whom did you ask? We may never know what really happened to Flight 93.
You may not. Everyone else does.Get this, people: (next section)
Next section : Flight Recorders, Cell Phone Calls, Miscellany =>
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