samedi 9 janvier 2010

Loosechangeguide - Section 5

Avant propos
[page en construction]

Ce document est un miroir du site malheureusement disparu, le nom de domaine n'ayant pas été renouvelé. Elle a été restaurée à partir de est une mine d'informations permettant de décrypter la thèse conspirationniste des attentats du 11 septembre 2001. Il répond point par point aux arguments exposés par Loose Change 2. La reproduction de ce site a pour objectif d'en assurer la pérennité.

Les textes surlignés en jaune, et parfois précédées du repère temporel MM:SS, sont la transcription de l'audio de Loose Change 2, à laquelle contre-argumente l'auteur de

Les textes surlignés en bleu sont des extraits de documents cités par l'auteur.

9-11 Loose Change Second Edition Viewer Guide

And debunking of various 9/11 conspiracy theories

Sections of this document :


But we do know what didn't happen.

Got that, folks? The makers of "Loose Change" believe that we can't trust any of the experts, public or private, who were involved in the 9/11 investigation, but they take OSAMA BIN LADEN'S word as gospel. Way to support the terrorists, truthseekers. And note the implication that bin Laden WOULD "exercise such operation" If the "current leader" allowed it. Sound credible? And what information does he have about the motives of the "real" culprits, that the attacks were for "personal reasons." And if he didn't plan the attacks, did he help fund them? Does he know who did plan them?

Somebody check Cleveland for that missing "C"

Whenever this evidence is presented to people, you'll usually get one of many different questions.

Evidence? I'm sorry, did I miss something?

The first one being, if different planes were used, what happened to the original ones?

That's not the first question I thought of when I heard this tale.

Unfortunately, we may never know what really happened.

Funny, you seemed to know in the first version of "LC."

But if we could examine the black boxes from the planes that were used,

Black boxes were recovered from 77 and 93.

We could prove that they weren't the original flights.

Wrong. There's no need to examine the boxes to prove what planes were involved.

A commercial plane carries two different black boxes. Each black box carries one of two different recorders, a cockpit voice recorder and a flight data recorder. The cockpit voice recorder records sounds from inside the cockpit, including engine noise, stall warnings, and other sounds of interest. Communications between Air Traffic Control, weather briefings and conversations between pilots and crew are also recorded. The flight data recorder records at least 28 different parameters such as time, altitude, speed and heading. Some also record more than 300 other in flight characteristics, anything from auto-pilot to smoke alarms. The recorders themselves are made from the most impervious metals known to man,

Okay, I'll bite: what are "the most impervious metals known to man?" Damn, and you had just made six consecutive statements without a screw-up.

I included this screen shot from "Loose Change" in case you were
wondering when we would see an undersea salvage robot.

And the information is recorded along with date and time, and spooled into a continuous roll. Any damage that is done to the roll is done to the outside, as opposed to the inside where the data is.

You're saying that the recordings can't be destroyed? That's incorrect.


The 9-11 Commission says "The cvrs and fdrs from American 11 and United 175 were not found..." Yet, the FBI claims to have found the passport of Satam al-Suqami, which managed to fly out of his pocket, through the explosion and onto the streets of Manhattan below.

That's right. And many other fragile things were found on the streets, including many body parts. And in March and April of 2006, over 500 bone fragments were found on the roof of the Deutsche Bank building. Some things went straight through the buildings, others were blown out to the sides, others stayed inside. "Loose Change" shows lots of paper floating from the buildings. What's strange about that?

Debris being ejected from 3 sides of WTC 2, after flight 175 "barely hit the corner."

So, four different black boxes, made from the most resiliant materials known to man, were destroyed.

Speculation. We don't know what happened to them.

Yet, a passport, made from a fragile material known as paper, managed to survive?

Yes. Just as similar things survived the other three crashes: human remains, mail, seat cushions, personal effects.

Who writes this stuff?

You do.

Ted Lopatkiewicz, spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board, told CBS News that "It's extremely rare that we don't get the recorders back. I can't recall another domestic case in which we did not recover the recorders."

It's also extremely rare for airliners to crash at full speed into skyscrapers, which collapse into 2 billion pounds of wreckage that burns for 99 days.


Turns out Ted's right. Nicholas Demasi, a firefighter who helped the recovery efforts claims in the book Behind the Scenes: Ground Zero, "At one point I was assigned to take Federal Agents around the site.

From what agency? Doesn't he know? And who assigned him?

To search for the black boxes from the planes. There were a total of four black boxes. We found three."

Somehow, while driving around the site, amongst the 2 billion pounds of rubble, they turn up three black boxes from two aircraft, which must have been on top of the rubble, yet remained unseen by the hundreds of other workers there (the boxes are orange, not black). Then, this huge news doesn't get reported at the time and Demasi doesn't tell the 9/11 Commission? Instead he tells the story in a self-published book? Any red flags going up?

Apparently Demasi has not confirmed this story since the book was published in 2003. And what about his friend "honorary" firefighter Mike Bellone, who claims to have seen the boxes? The only article referencing his story that I've been able to find is in the American Free Press, and we've seen how accurate they've been so far. In the undated article, which states that the recorders were found "before January, 2002," Bellone says of the FBI agents on the scene,

"They confronted me and told me to not to say anything," recalled Bellone, referring to one of three reddish-orange boxes with two white stripes he saw in the back of DeMasi's ATV. "I said, 'Give me a good reason.' When they couldn't, I told them I wouldn't shut up about it.

"Why should I? I have nothing to hide and nothing to gain. It's the truth, and Nick and I are sticking to our story as we always have." "Source"

If that is so, what has Mr. Bellone done to get the word out? Has he filed lawsuits or even FOIA requests? He mentions that only one other newspaper has interviewed him. Has he taken his story to them? How about a website?

The only "corroboration" I've been able to find for DeMasi and Bellone's story is this anonymous-source piece at Counterpunch:

Now there is stronger evidence that something is amiss than simply the alleged non-recovery of all four of those boxes. A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

The official word from the NTSB is that the WTC crash site black boxes never turned up. "No recorders were recovered from the World Trade Center," says the NTSB's Lopatkiewicz. "At least none were delivered to us by the FBI." He adds that the agency has "always had a good relationship' with the FBI and that in all prior crime-related crashes or flight incidents, they have brought the boxes to the NTSB for analysis. Source

So, what to make of all that? Why would anything on those boxes need to be protected? It all smells way too fishy to me.

I guess it all comes down to who you'd rather believe.

I believe evidence. No evidence has been presented that the boxes were recovered.

FBI Director Robert Mueller said Flight 77's data recorder provided altitude, speed, headings and other information, but the voice recorder contained nothing useful. And Donald Rumsfeld said the data on the cockpit voice recorder was unrecoverable. As for Flight 93, it was the only flight where the cockpit voice recorder was recovered.

Hey, how'd that happen? And didn't you just say that the CVR of flight 77 was found?

It was played for the families in April, 2002, but not before they signed an agreement saying that they wouldn't talk about it.

Dylan Avery and other "Truth Seekers" dispute this statement.

They couldn't even take notes.

But the transcript has been released.


And for some reason, the last three minutes of the tape was unaccounted for.

This claim apparently arose from a misinterpretation of seismic data that placed the crash time at 10:06. According to the 9/11 Commission, a very large and verifiable set of data confirm the time of 10:03, which is the time the black boxes stopped recording. At least one of the seismographers agrees with the Commission's findings.

We also reviewed a report regarding seismic observations on September 11, 2001, whose authors conclude that the impact time of United 93 was "10:06:05±5 (EDT)." Won-Young Kim and G. R. Baum, "Seismic Observations during September 11, 2001,Terrorist Attack," spring 2002 (report to the Maryland Department of Natural Resources). But the seismic data on which they based this estimate are far too weak in signal-to-noise ratio and far too speculative in terms of signal source to be used as a means of contradicting the impact time established by the very accurate combination of FDR, CVR, ATC, radar, and impact site data sets. These data sets constrain United 93's impact time to within 1 second, are airplane- and crash-site specific, and are based on time codes automatically recorded in the ATC audiotapes for the FAA centers and correlated with each data set in a process internationally accepted within the aviation accident investigation community.

Furthermore, one of the study's principal authors now concedes that "seismic data is not definitive for the impact of UA 93." Email from Won-Young Kim to the Commission,"Re: UA Flight 93," July 7, 2004; see also Won-Young Kim,"Seismic Observations for UA Flight 93 Crash near Shanksville, Pennsylvania during September 11, 2001," July 5, 2004 Source

The FBI had no explanation for the discrepancy. Why would the 9-11 Commission tell us Flight 11 and 175's recorders weren't found?

Because they had no evidence that they were? Remember, DeMasi didn't tell them.

Why would Robert Mueller tell us that there's nothing interesting on Flight 77s?

Because there was nothing interesting? Your own video shows the report that 77's CVR was badly damaged by the fire and the information on it was not recoverable.

What's on the last three minutes of Flight 93's CVR?

See above.

These are vital questions that need to be answered.

Why are they vital questions? We know why the planes crashed.

It's an interesting postscript that Flight 93 was spotted on April 10th, 2003 at Chicago's O'Hare Airport,

I think you mean the plane, right? It was destroyed in Pennsylvania.

By David Friedman, a United Airlines employee who records all of his flights. The tail number, N591UA was spotted on Flight 1111, a United Airlines 757.

Right, but no one who owns that plane, works on that plane, flies that plane and has to fill out maintenance reports for that plane have noticed that the tail number is the same as the crashed plane. Silly goose, the FAA records the tail numbers of every plane on every commercial flight. The tail number for flight 1111 is N594UA. The sighting was either a mistake, or someone is pulling your chain. Judging from the length of your chain, I'd guess the latter. You're wallowing in deep doo-doo if you think there's another plane flying around with tail number N591UA. Some day there may be (see below), but I highly doubt it.

And according the FAA, both N591UA and N612UA, Flights 93 and 175, are still valid.

That's right. The numbers are kept in the reserved "N" number database by the airlines for possible future use. They do not indicate active aircraft.

But Flights 11 and 77 are listed as destroyed.

Yes. And the "N" numbers are available for AA to use. Why the "but"?

Not to mention that they were not even scheduled to fly on September 11th.

Can you think of a non-sinister reason that they did fly?


Next. What about the cell phone calls?

Warning! The creators of "Loose Change" show their true colors in this section. Even if you are slow to anger, you may feel the desire to put your fist through the computer monitor.

If, however, you're a fan of sneering, dripping sarcasm directed by a moron towards murder victims, then you've come to the right place.

For starters, the calls themselves are extremely peculiar.

That's a peculiarly nasty statement. One of the nastiest I've ever heard, actually.

Most of them are only a couple sentences long, before the callers end the conversation, only to call back later.

Huh. That's terrible phone etiquette.


Flight Attendant Betty Ong allegedly placed a call from Flight 11.

Allegedly, huh?

According to the 9-11 Commission, although the conversation lasted 23 minutes, only 4 and a half minutes was recorded.

The 911 Commission said that only the first 4 minutes of the phone call between Ong and the reservations center (Miner, Sadler and Gonzalez) was recorded because of the time limit on the recently installed system (footnote #29 to Chapter 1).

"What is your name?" "Ok, my name is Betty Ong. I'm number 3 on Flight 11." "Okay."

"And the cockpit is not answering their phone. And there's somebody stabbed in business class. And there's... We can't breathe in business class. Somebody's got mace or something. Okay. Our number 1 got stabbed. Our purser is stabbed. Nobody knows who is stabbed who, and we can't even get up to business class right now cause nobody can breathe. Our number 1 is stabbed right now. And who else is... Okay, and do we... and our number 5 -our first class passengers are - galley flight attendant and our purser has been stabbed. And we can't get into the cockpit, the door won't open."

Does Ms. Ong sound like a woman on a hijacked plane who just saw three people murdered?

Who says she did? She first says that the purser was stabbed, but not that she saw this happen, or that the purser was dead. Then she mentions the galley flight attendant being stabbed, without saying she witnessed it herself, or that the attendant was dead.

The Staff Monograph on the Four Flights and Civil Aviation Security says that Ong was in position 3, "assigned to the right aft jumpseat at the back of the aircraft behind the coach section", and the Commission report also puts her working in coach. It seems likely that she did not witness everything that happened in the front of the plane. Source

Flight attendant Madeline Sweeney (see below) suggests all three victims may have survived the stabbings. And she also reveals why the passengers in coach were calm:

Sweeney calmly reported on her line that the plane had been hijacked; a man in first class had his throat slashed; two flight attendants had been stabbed - one was seriously hurt and was on oxygen while the other's wounds seemed minor; a doctor had been requested; the flight attendants were unable to contact the cockpit; and there was a bomb in the cockpit...

Why is nobody in the background screaming?

...At 0841, Sweeney told Woodward that passengers in coach were under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class... Source
(Thanks, Mike)


Flight attendant Madeline Sweeney allegedly talked with her ground manager Michael Woodward for 25 minutes.

Allegedly? Michael Woodward says "actually."

She describes 4 hijackers. The FBI says there were 5.

Hmm. Could be a mistake made in the heat of the moment.

She says the hijackers were in rows 9 and 10. The FAA says there were all in row 8.

This from

Sweeney is reported as giving specific seat numbers. The names, addresses, phone numbers, and credit cards of these hijackers are quickly identified: Abdulaziz Alomari is in 9G, Mohamed Atta is in 9D, and Satam Al Suqami is in 10B. Source

Alomari and Atta were actually booked in 8G and 8D, so the report was one row out, but that's not exactly a difficult mistake to make. Especially as Sweeney was also reportedly working in coach with Ong, and so may have relied on second-hand information about their location. And as there were no other passengers sitting in the row 7 to 10 D and G seats, it wasn't hard to figure out the most likely candidates for who she was talking about

Near the end, she screams, "I see buildings. Water. Oh my God!"

No, she didn't "scream."  Does the horror of this story really need your dramatic embellishment?

Woodward asked Sweeney to look out of the window and see if she could tell what was going on. "I see the water. I see the buildings. I see buildings," she told him...

Sweeney told Woodward the plane was flying very low. Then, he said, "She took a very slow, deep breath and then just said, 'Oh, my God!' Very slowly, very calmly, very quietly. It wasn't in panic." Source

Madeline was a flight attendant out of Boston for 12 years. I think she would have recognized Manhattan.

No comment.

A man claiming to be Mark Bingham called his mother, Alice, who was visiting his sister-in-law.

"Claiming to be." His mother certainly says it was him.

The caller says, "Mom? This is Mark Bingham." When was the last time you called your mother and used your full name?

What an effing creep you are, Dylan Avery.

"I just want to tell you that I love you. I'm on a flight from Newark to San Francisco and there are three guys on board and they have taken over the plane and they say they have a bomb. I'm calling you from the Airfone," and then "You believe me, don't you, Mom?"

"Yes Mark, I believe you, who are these guys?"

Then he was interrupted by someone who was speaking  in a low-toned male voice, speaking what sounded like English. After 30 seconds of muffled sounds, the caller repeats "I'm calling you with an Airfone."

Loose Change says this technology didn't exist in 2001.

His mother asks him again, "Who are these guys?"

After another pause he returns and asks again, "You believe me, don't you, Mom?"

There was another pause, and the phone just trailed off.

To date, none of the calls, except for Betty Ong's call to American Airlines, has been released to the public.

They have been since.


But to be honest, none of that matters.

Thank you for being honest. I think all of "that" matters very much. When it comes right down to it, what could possibly matter more? Sorry you don't think it's important.

Why? Because none of these calls could have taken place.

No matter how much you didn't want them to, they did take place. Real people made those calls in the real world, Dylan Avery. Their last calls. And because no one could help those on flight 93, they tried to help themselves, and may have saved many lives in the process. And because they fought for their lives, who will ever dare to try to take over an airliner again?

Kee Dewdney of conducted some research of his own.

Knowing of the geniuses at, I'm sure Ken did quality "research."

In an experiment called Project Achilles, he took a series of cell phones onto a Cessna 172

Project Achilles, huh? Interesting name. This "researcher" couldn't have some bias here, could he?

Did he follow the flight paths of the 4 airliners? No. He did 4 "laps" over London, Ontario.

Which cell phones did he use? Two Motorola phones, "fully charged."

Are you aware that the three calls you listed above - which you say "couldn't have happened" - along with several others, were made with the airplane's installed GTE Airphones?

"Yeah, but...they still couldn't have happened."

Sometimes, Mr. Avery, ignorance is just hurtful.

And flew up to 8,000 feet to determine the success rate as the plane got higher. At 4,000 feet he had a .4 success rate. At 8,000 feet he had a .1 success rate.

So? 40% and 10%? Under what conditions? These data mean nothing.

For 32,000 feet, cruising altitude for a commercial airliner, he calculated a .006 success rate.

Show us the calculation and the science behind it. We know he didn't go there in a Cessna 172, which with its best engine has a service ceiling of 17,000 feet.

Less than one in a hundredth of a chance.

Yet look at this testimony from a flight 1989 passenger, which was corroborated by the pilot, other passengers, and air traffic control:

"...we were forced to make an emergency landing in Cleveland because there were reports that a bomb or hijacking was taking place on our plane. The pilot had radioed that there was suspicious activity in the cabin since one of the passengers was speaking urgently on his cellphone and ignored repeated flight attendant requests to stop using his cell phone while in flight." Source

Don't believe me? Even American Airlines has put their foot in the government's mouth.

No, I don't believe you, because you're not even aware that it was common to be able to connect on a cell phone at altitude in 2001.

On July 15th, 2004, passengers aboard a commercial American Airlines flight were able to send and receive calls from their cell phones as if they were on the ground, thanks to a cell station that was installed into the plane. "It worked great. I called the office. I called my wife. I called a friend in Paris. They all heard me great, and I could hear them loud and clear."

Nice to know.

Why would American Airlines spend thousands of dollars on this technology in 2004

Because it had become reliable and cost-effective, and the demand was there.

When cell phones worked so well on September 11th, 2001?

They didn't work well, but enough worked. Cell phones were generally more powerful then. Their power has been reduced to lower radiation emissions.

The cell phone calls were fake. No question about it.

Try doing some research.

So how is it possible to fake a person's voice? In 1999, the Los Alamos Laboratory in New Mexico revealed their voice morphing technology. General Carl W. Steiner, the former Commander-in-chief of U.S. Special Operations declared on tape: "Gentlemen! We have called you together to inform you that we are going to overthrow the United States government."

Another example was Colin Powell saying, "I am being treated well by my captors." With just a 10-minute recording of somebody's voice, they are able, in almost real time, to clone someone's speech. Steiner was so impressed, he asked for a copy.

Let's remember that these weren't just people leaving messages on answering machines. Most of these were live, back-and-forth conversations that happened in real time as events unfolded. Betty Ong had a 23-minute conversation.

The following is a the text of a pamphlet I handed out at the premiere of the film "United 93" on April 25, 2006. The creators of "Loose Change were there to gain publicity and protest the official "lie" that the passengers of flight 93 fought for their lives.

The Truth About the "9-11 Truth Movement"

Dear friends,

You may be approached outside this event by members of a self-described "9-11 Truth Alliance" or "Truth Movement." Unfortunately, truth is a casualty when these people speak about 9-11. They are conspiracy-mongers who claim that the terrorist attacks of 9-11 were carried out by the U.S. government, not by Islamic terrorists associated with al Qaida.

They also believe that United flight 93 did not crash in Pennsylvania, but instead landed safely in Cleveland, Ohio and that the whereabouts of its passengers and crew are unknown. For publicity reasons they have chosen to trumpet their ignorance at this event, which is attended by families of flight 93 victims. They are angry that the film "United 93" reflects the "official government version" of 9-11, which is that heroic passengers fought back against the terrorists, and in doing so, may have saved many lives.

Among the most aggressive publicity seekers in the "Truth Movement" are the creators and supporters of a video called "9-11 Loose Change", which is being distributed by its creators here.

They also have an internet forum where members can discuss the video and other 9-11 topics:

Last night I went to the "9-11 Truth Alliance Meeting" and it was very successful. I also made good strives on getting the idea of doing a demonstrations @ Theaters over the Fight 93 movie coming out this month. If we play our cards right, and come up with a good slogan, we may just get some air time on local news channels. [sic] Let's bite these bastards where it hurts, and have this Fight 93 movie backfire on them." -datars, Loose Change Forum Member

That's right, they think we're "bastards" for saying that United flight 93 crashed, despite the facts that 95% of the plane was recovered, with both black boxes, and the remains of all passengers were positively identified. The "Loose Change" video also promotes the idea that flight 77 did not crash into the Pentagon, but again, it does not speculate on the fate of its passengers. Very little is said about the victims in "Loose Change."

Dylan Avery, the writer and director of "Loose Change," finally gets around to a sustained comment about 9/11 victims an hour and six minutes into the video - and he spends the next four and a half minutes ridiculing the fact that several passengers and crew members made desperate cell phone and Earphone calls from the hijacked planes.

"For starters, the calls themselves are extremely peculiar. Most of them are only a couple sentences long, before the callers end the conversation, only to call back later."

Dylan Avery on Betty Ong, Flight Attendant on AA flight 11: "Does Ms. Ong sound like a woman on a hijacked plane who just saw three people murdered? Why is nobody in the background screaming?"

Dylan Avery on Madeline Sweeney, who was also working flight 11: "She describes 4 hijackers. The FBI says there were 5. She says the hijackers were in rows 9 and 10. The FAA says there were all in row 8. Near the end, she screams, 'I see buildings. Water. Oh my God!' Madeline was a flight attendant out of Boston for 12 years. I think she would have recognized Manhattan. ...The cell phone calls were fake. No question about it." -From the "Loose Change" video

The creators of "Loose Change," Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe, and Jason Breams, rely on a network of volunteer workers to copy and distribute the video, hold screenings, and run their internet forum.

Disregard for the victims of 9-11 seems to have rubbed off on these supporters. There is a well-known photo of a woman standing in the smoking gash made by one of the planes that hit the World Trade Center. She came to work on a beautiful morning, and somehow the entire universe turned against her. She has no good options.


"You dont need to be a Rhodes Scholar to know a plane [Flight 93] didnt crash into that crater. Anyone who will argue a plane DID crash there is in complete denial and no amount information will alter their belief." [sic] - FM258, Loose Change Forum Administrator

"I think these people that think Flight 93 is a great movie, are using it to hide their pain. They don't want to admit to the truth and they would much rather believe their familiy members were heros. [sic] - DJLegacy2k1, Loose Change Forum Administrator

If the quotes above bother you, please say so to the "Loose Change" people at this event.

Dylan Avery admittedly started the Loose Change project as a work of fiction. It has remained so. A few minutes' fact-checking easily refutes every major claim in the video. How bad is it? We counted 426 errors in a video that runs for 1:19:32. It is an avalanche of ignorance.

We don't want to give these conspiracy-mongers unnecessary publicity, but neither are we going to let them spread misinformation and hatred in our communities unopposed. Surprisingly, these theories are spreading, and seem to be especially popular with teenage boys and young men. Videos like "Loose Change" are very popular downloads on the internet, and a Google search of "9/11 conspiracy" turns up nearly a million web pages. Conspiracy theorists have had some success voicing their views on major media outlets. That trend may continue with intellectual giants like Charlie Sheen on their side.

You Can Help Stop the Spread of Misinformation About 9-11

We don't discourage you from watching "Loose Change" and videos like it. If nothing else they are a frightening reminder of how easily some people can become divorced from reality. If you feel as we do after watching the video, let the "Loose Change" creators and supporters know on their web forum: And email Dylan Avery:

Ask teens and young adults if they've heard of these theories. Encourage them to think for themselves and remind them that conspiracy sites are not a good place to find the facts about anything.

A good list of links to 9-11 conspiracy-debunking sites is at

A more generic version of this flyer is on that blog. Feel free to print several copies and bring them to your local theater when "Universal 93" is released nationwide on April 28: the "Truth Movement" people plan to be at as many theaters as possible.

Thank you for speaking out against ignorance!

The authors of this flyer do not speak for the families of 9/11 victims, for Universal Pictures, or for anyone else. We are not supported by any organization, and have no political or economic motive. We simply believe that the events of 9/11 should be portrayed accurately and that the families and friends of victims should be treated with respect.


So what about the hijackers?

The Saudi government admits that 15 were their citizens and that their families were notified of the deaths. Source

On September 14th, 2001, the Department of Justice released the names of the alleged 19 hijackers. But on September 23rd, the BBC reported that Waleed Al Shehri was alive and well in Casablanca, Morrocco.

The article is from Sept. 23, 2001. The creators of "Loose Change Second Edition," which was made in 2005, choose to ignore information learned since then.

This appears to be a case of mistaken identity. A different Waleed was brother of Wail (below). His family says he disappeared before 9/11. There is no evidence that he's alive. Source

They also tracked down Abdulaziz Alomari, who is an engineer with Saudi Telecoms, and lost his passport while studying in Denver.

Same name, different birthdates. Source

In the same article, FBI Director Robert Mueller admitted that "the identity of several of the hijackers is in doubt."

That was true as of Sept 23, 2001. You really have trouble getting past September of '01, don't you? Well, that explains a lot. You don't understand that "investigations" involve hard work and real research in the real world. That takes time. Since September, 2001, much has been learned.

"The FBI has resolved questions about the identities of the 19 hijackers involved in the Sept. 11 attacks and has discovered places outside the United States where the conspiracy was planned, FBI Director Robert Mueller said Friday. Saudi Arabian officials and others have questioned whether some of the hijackers identified by the FBI in the weeks after the attacks used stolen identifications. Mueller said those questions have been answered. "We at this point definitely know the 19 hijackers who were responsible," he said. Source

Mueller's statement to the Joint Intelligence Inquiry Committee in 2002.

Page 3 of this paper shows the connections between the 19 terrorists.


So how many hijackers turned up alive? At least 9 of them.

False. The hijackers all died. People with the same names as the hijackers are alive. There are 288 people listed in the U.S. phone directory who have my name, and certainly there are more who are children or are unlisted.

Wail M. Alshehri is alive and well.

Brother of Waleed above. His family says he disappeared. No evidence that he's alive. Source

Mohand Alshehri is alive in Saudi Arabia.

Evidence that it's not just a guy with the same name?

Khalid Almihdhar is a computer programmer in Mecca.

Almihdhar the hijacker was a known, experienced Islamic militant and Al Qaeda member. Source

Salem Alhazmi works at a chemical plant in Yanbu, Saudi Arabia.

Alhamzi the hijacker was a known, experienced islamic militant and Al Qaeda member. Source

Saeed Alghamdi is training to be a pilot in Tunis.

Der Spiegel investigated this particular claim, and found that it appeared to be a case of mistaken identity. Source

Ahmed Alnami is an administrative supervisor for Saudi Airlines.

Again, that's just a guy with the same name. The hijacker Alnami went missing from his family in December, 2000. Source

We already covered Waleed and Abdulaziz. And last but not least, Mohammed Atta's father claimed to receive a phone call from his son on September 12th.

However, Atta's father did not say this when he was interviewed on Sept. 19. Atta's father also allegedly praised the 9/11 and 7/7 attacks and said more would follow. There is no proof that Atta is alive. Source

On September 20th and 27th, Mueller admitted on CNN that there is "no legal proof to prove the identities of the hijackers"

Again, that's in September of 2001. Obviously the investigation had not been completed. Mueller's statement to the Joint Intelligence Inquiry Committee in 2002.

Indeed. After all, not even the official autopsy for Flight 77 lists the hijackers,

Nor does it list the two-year-old on that flight, whose remains were not identified. The report you refer to is of the body parts and tissue samples positively identified by the pathologists. DNA analysis of the hijacker's remains could not be done because that requires a reference sample. However, there is overwhelming evidence that the 19 Arab men identified by the FBI did board and take control of the flights. Source   Source

And the opening paragraph makes no mention of their absence.

So if there's no proof that the hijackers were members of Al Qaeda or if they were even on the plane in the first place, Another assumption not supported by evidence. Your tally is coming up in a few pages. You still have time to submit a new draft of the "Loose Change" script!

What justification do we have for bombing Afghanistan?

The Taliban admitted to harboring Al Qaeda and Osama Bin Laden, who was wanted by the U.S. for the embassy bombings.


Oh, that's right. The Bin Laden confession tape.

Assumption that we would not have invaded Afghanistan without that tape.

On December 14th, 2001, the government released a tape, allegedly of bin Laden confessing to the attacks of 9/11, which they claimed to find in a house in Jalalabad, Afghanistan.

Proof that they didn't?

Except there's a number of things wrong with this tape. One, the tape itself is of very poor quality.


And two, the man in the video looks and acts nothing like bin Laden.

Conspiracy theorists always use this single still image to "prove" that this isn't bin Laden. However, the man believed to be bin Laden appears for about a half-hour in the video.

Same video, same guy. This is a screenshot taken directly from the video. (Not from LC)

According to the FBI's website, Osama is left-handed.

It does say that. However he could be ambidextrous. We do see him in other videos not using his left hand at all. He shoots from the left side, but that has more to do with which eye is strongest, not which hand.

Yet, in this video, he is writing a note with his right hand.

He does briefly appear to be writing with his right hand. It doesn't appear that his left is injured in the video. It's possible that he does this to disguise his handwriting.

Not to mention he's wearing a gold ring, which is forbidden by Islamic law,

Bin Laden often wears a ring. How do you know what it's made of? And since when does he adhere to Islamic law?

And is never mentioned in the FBI's description of him.

Well, he's wearing a ring on the same finger in these stills from Al Jazeera:

OBL ring 1 OBL ring 2

He also appears to be wearing a ring in this photo.

More here.

And, the guy to bin Laden's right in the video is also wearing a ring that's gold in color on his right hand.

Compare this video to four other pictures of bin Laden.

Does anybody else see a problem here?

Yes. You're using a still from a very poor video with very harsh directional lighting. You should look at the whole video of the "fake" bin Laden, in which he looks just like Osama in most shots.

Here he is coming through the doorway in that video. He had to duck, and he towers over the others in the room. Bin Laden is 6'4"-6'6" tall. (Not from LC)

More screenshots from the confession video (not from LC)

Until the government can prove without a shadow of a doubt that Al-Qaeda was behind September 11th,

Al Qaeda leaders, including Osama Bin Laden, claimed responsibility for the attacks. They said they were acting in accordance with the 1998 fatwa against the United States. Source

A more detailed look at bin Laden's and al Qaeda's claims of responsibility is here.

The American people have every reason to believe otherwise.

False. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. You're the one making extraordinary claims, but you provide no proof to back them up. I highly recommend that you read and really make the effort to understand A Field Guide to Critical Thinking.

And now for the last question of all. Why would our government do such a thing?

You haven't provided a single piece of evidence that indicates U.S. government complicity in 9/11. In America, one is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. You haven't even provided circumstantial evidence that the attacks of 9/11 weren't carried out by Islamic Jihadists.

Let's put it this way, If I asked you in confidence for the name of a single American individual whom you have ACTUAL evidence against for complicity in the 9/11 attacks, would you be able to give ma a name? Just one. I don't need the whole plot laid out for me. Just tell me one person who you've got the goods on.

And if you say you can't give me a name because of the secret nature of the conspiracy, then how are you going to convince a government commission to investigate? And how could you be sure that any commissioners weren't in on the conspiracy?

It's wise to be skeptical of our leaders. Paranoia is unhealthy at any time.

And who are the experts lined up to fight for "truth? Karl Schwarz? David Ray Griffin? Steven E. Jones? Jimmy Walter? Alex Jones? These buffoons are the experts that we're supposed be impressed by?

I wish we could hold national elections today and not have to wait until 2008. But you don't have to wait to change the leadership of your group. You can reject the lunatic fringe now, put your video games aside, and get down to applying your youthful energy to issues in the real world.

I hope you're sitting down.


First, we have Larry Silverstein, the man who purchased the World Trade Center in July, 2001.

I wonder if there's any chance that this would be coming up if his name was "Larry Jones."

After September 11th, Silverstein demanded $7.2 billion dollars form his insurers,

"Demanded?" Yes, I hear he threatened to "pull" the chairs out from under them if they didn't comply.

Claiming that each plane counted as a separate act of terrorism.

A sound business decision.

However, on December 6th, 2004, the courts only rewarded him with $2.2 billion dollars.

The awards totaled $4.6 billion in two phases. You are only off by $2.4 billion.

But you haven't made a claim here. Are you saying that he shouldn't have collected insurance money that he was owed and that he needed to rebuild?

Next we have the put options that were placed on United Airlines, American Airlines, and Boeing.

This was covered earlier.

Again, check the date on this article...

...and tell me how interested these Loose Change guys are in the "truth."

According to the San Fransisco Chronicle, more than $2.5 Million dollars has remained unclaimed.

Had remained unclaimed, as of the September 29, 2001 Chronicle article. The money was collected by the investors after that. Did you really not check any stories after 9/01?

Really digging hard to get the most current info, aren't you?

As for 9-11 itself... Reuters reported that Convar, a German computer company, is responsible for helping companies and accountants of New York to restore their data from over 400 hard drives, that were recovered from the World Trade Center's rubble. Convar recovered information from 32 different computers hat suggested insider trading took place on 9-11.

Assumption. Evidence?

This is from a 2001 article in "Unknown News." Its main columnist is named "Chuckles."

If they had sought "known news," they would have found that this was all resolved long ago.

Richard Wagner, an expert at Convar, "There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes"

"Suspicion?" How about evidence?

"in order to move out amounts exceeding 100 million dollars."


"They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed."

Richard Wagner said that? He knew what "they" thought? Was this information recovered from a hard drive? Maybe an email that said "He, he. Once those planes come we're home free!"

Do you think that when a trade is made, it is only recorded on one computer? Are you that gullible? Don't answer.

After their analysis, Convar handed the results over to the FBI. Although the FBI was legally bound to investigate who was responsible, to date they have done no such thing.

Please cite the law you are referring to. And do you have Evidence that there was any incriminating evidence whatsoever? The 9/11 commission report says that all trades that initially appeared suspicious were found to have innocuous causes, after an exhaustive investigation.

Moving on. According to Wikipedia,


"One of the world's largest gold depositories was stored underneath the World Trade Center."

In 1993 the value of the gold was estimated at one billion dollars, rumored to be owned by Kuwaiti interests.


When the World Trade Center was destroyed, the amount of gold "far exceeded the 1993 levels."

Wrong. Source Do you think they only know the value of the gold once every eight years? Suppose you went to your bank and asked for the balance on your account and were told, "Well, here's about what you had 8 years ago, and we're sure you have a lot more than that now." No, they keep a running tally of the gold! Isn't that smart of them? And it makes people in the gold market very happy.

"The gold was finally recovered in its entirety in late 2001."

Yes! A pearl amongst swine.

Or was it?

Yes, it was. But why settle for that when you can make up an extremely stupid story. The truth can be so boring!

On November 1st, 2001, the Timesonline reported that a large amount of gold was discovered in the wreckage of the World Trade Center.

Correct. In the vault where it was stored under #4.

Mayor Rudolph Guiliani announced that more than $230 million dollars was recovered from Ground Zero.

Correct. From the vault where it was stored. You're doing good!

However, the Comex metals trading division was storing gold bars for the Bank of Nova Scotia, Chase Manhattan Bank, The Bank of New York, Hong Kong, and Shanghai Banking, totaling $950 million dollars.

Oops. You lost it there. Source? Think about it: if this were so, what effect would its loss have on the worldwide gold market?

And that's just one company.

Your point?

There's gold in them thar dump trucks!

Rumor has it that over $160 billion dollars in gold were stored in the World Trade Center.

That's quite a rumor. Where did you hear it? That would be approximately 53.6% of the world's gold reserves as of September 2001. (Source: World Gold Council 2001 monthly report)

So where did all the gold go?

It was all recovered. $230 million worth.

Remember the gold that was found in November, 2001?

Yeah, I just mentioned it.

Reuters reported, that it was discovered in the back of a 10 wheel truck,

Nope. You're losing you're last screws.

Along with several cars in a delivery tunnel underneath World Trade Center 5.

No. No bodies were recovered. No kumquats were recovered either. Do you know why?

Here's the actual Reuters story

Treasure Found in World Trade Center Rubble

NEW YORK - Over $230 million in gold and silver was recovered from a delivery tunnel beneath 5 World Trade Center Wednesday. Canada's Bank of Nova Scotia stored over $200 million in gold and silver in their vaults under the building. They are still unsure how much of the recovered metal was theirs. It is believed that there were other valuables stored in the vaults but there is no information on how much of it has been lost or recovered in the disaster.

Officials finally reached the trove Tuesday after removing a 10-wheel truck and several cars that had been crushed by the debris. No bodies were recovered. More than 100 armed officers watched the workers. The contents of the vaults had to be removed because authorities need to demolish the building. - Reuters and New York Daily News

01:16:45 --> 01:16:50

As workers got closer to the gold, authorities began restricting access to Ground Zero,

Well, restricting access to the vaults, anyway.

Joined by FBI and Secret Service agents.


One worker who was directed away from the tunnel told a reporter, "If I tried to go down there, they would have shot me."


Heavy-machinery operators and others worked under the watchful eye of more than 100 armed officers.

I would expect so.

So, let me get this straight.

Okay, but we're running out of time. Do you mean just this, or everything?

Gold from WTC4 was found underneath WTC5, in an empty delivery truck, with an empty escort of cars.

Ooh, you were so...not close. (and how do you find gold in an empty truck, Zen Master?)

I think it's safe to say that they were running away from the South Tower.

Sorry. Unsafe to say...

The question is, how did they know to flee from their stash, when not even the firefighters inside the South Tower expected it to collapse?

Another demerit for you.

167 billion dollars in gold. 200 million is found.

You are in error.

And that's just the money.


After September 11th, President Bush had and continues to have permission to do and say whatever he wants,

Permission from whom? I know he has to ask Condi's permission to use the loo. I don't recall us giving him permission to do whatever he wants.

all under the pretext of 9-11.

The Patriot Act.

The Department of Homeland Security.



Insert 19 seconds of helicopter gun camera footage from the Gulf War in 1991. Footage shows three Iraqis being blown literally to bits by the helicopter's 30mm cannon. Thanks, Boomster.

It's time for America to accept 9-11 for what it was:

A lie which killed thousands of people, only in turn killing hundreds of thousands more, to make billions upon trillions of dollars.

9/11 was a lie? No, it happened. Billions upon trillions?

Are you angry yet? You should be.

Yes, I'm angry that you don't take 9/11 seriously enough to be bothered to do the slightest research, yet you presume to preach about it.

Every single attempt to investigate and uncover the truth behind 9-11 has been blackballed, ridiculed,

You're referring to your "investigation," which consists of parroting the ideas of other conspiracy-mongers. Am I wrong? Okay, then: name a single original idea of yours that's in the video, or a single new fact you've uncovered that's backed by evidence. Anyway, "ridiculed" I get. You couldn't be more ridiculous if you tried. But how have you been blackballed? You're freely speaking out and freely distributing your video, right?

That's a dirty trick, attacking us with facts!


And harassed by both the government and media alike, for even daring to question the official story.

Tell us exactly how you've been harassed by the government and the media for daring to question anything. Well, I'm waiting.

Still waiting.

Nothing? I thought not.


Getting towards the end here. Are they saving the best for last? Well, at least we have a REAL journalist on the scene: Geraldo Rivera.

"Jimmy Walter, you spent nearly 2 million dollars on an advertising blitz"

Oh, crap. I forgot about this guy. Now I have to go back and add him to your list of spokesmen. His expertise in relevant areas? None. His foolishness? Mind-blowing.

One of the ideas promoted by his website: that no airliners were involved on 9/11.

"What about all the witnesses? We have never found any reliable witnesses to these alleged big passenger jets. We find people who saw "something", who were home in bed with the drapes drawn and still "saw the plane" they think, because they heard the explosion...

We caution everyone that false-memories are easily planted about what people think they should have seen. Also, the mind is a computer that interprets signals from the eyes." Source

Walter offers a $1,000,000 prize to anyone who can prove that explosives were not used to bring down the twin towers. Sounds tempting, right? But you have to satisfy 22 of his conditions. Here's one:
13) Entrants must prove how the trade towers steel structure was broken apart without explosives in 8.4 seconds.

Since that didn't happen, it's impossible to prove. His money is safe.

Walter says,
"Researchers I hired have confirmed the following. You be the judge. Unlike most new things that get less good, less perfect as you know them better, this has just got surer and surer, deeper and deeper. As they said in The Matrix, keep reading this site and see "how deep this rabbit hole goes". I really do feel like I took the red pill." Source

He then goes on to mention "the speed of gravity," which makes me think he may have taken pills of several colors.

Walter practices "Rational-Emotive-Behaviorism," which I think means that if you're going to go out for a beer with him you should expect him to do all the talking.

"to convince people here in New York and elsewhere that 9-11 was a self-inflicted wound. "

"Jimmy, welcome. Why are you doing this?"

"Thanks for having me, Geraldo. I'm doing this because a fool and his money are soon parted. I'm a patriot trying to defend this country from the real terrorists,"

So if you were on flight 93 you'd be shouting at everyone to stop bothering the other patriots who were trying to fly the plane into the arch-villain's HQ, right?

"who have damaged and changed our country. I am asking the same questions that the widows and orphans, parents and friends of the victims of 911 are asking,"

Can you name some who agree with you, Jimmy, besides Willie Rodriguez?

"and have not had answered by either the 911 Commission, nor by any real investigation"

Actually, there were several real investigations, with thousands of people working for public and private organizations involved. Their conclusions explicitly and comprehensively refute your claims. Are all the experts lying, Jimmy? Do you, with no expertise, know better than they?

"to the mass murders, that 66% of New Yorkers want investigated."

He's referring to a Zogby poll THAT HE COMMISSIONED on the eve of the 2004 Republican National Convention in New York. Not exactly impartial. For example, one of the questions referred to "the inexplicable and largely unreported collapse of the third WTC skyscraper." The poll results showed that the less schooling people had, the more they agreed with the conspiracy theory.

I'll say it again. Why are they hiding from us? What are they hiding from us?

Their laughter?

And what's it going to take until people in this country give a damn and do something about it?

To give a damn about your theory? An enormous amount of Olde English HG 800.

America has been hijacked. Not by Al Qaeda. Not by Osama bin Laden.

So we should forget about them, right? And Bin Laden is harmless? This headline from five minutes ago:
Bin Laden Tells Militants to Fight in Sudan

By Brian Knowlton

International Herald Tribune

Published: April 23, 2006

WASHINGTON, April 24 - A new audiotape from Osama bin Laden urges militants to travel to Sudan to fight against a proposed United Nations force for Darfur, and he accuses the United States and its European allies of waging "a Zionist-crusader war on Islam."

But by a group of tyrans [sic], ready and willing to do whatever it takes to keep their stranglehold on this country.

Evidence, please, that these people were complicit in the terrorist attacks of 9/11?

In case of stupidity, break glass, wrap flag around body. Keep tin foil handy.


So what are we going to do about it?

Take more screenshots of websites and splice them together as "Loose Change 3"?

Anything. Share this information with friends, family, total strangers.

How about cleaning up your own mess before you advise others on what to do?

Hold screenings, conferences, whatever you have to do to get the word out.

It's up to you.

Believe me, I will do my part to get the word out about you guys.

01:19:32 --> 01:19:35

Ask questions. Demand answers.

Here are some questions that I'd like answers to, Dylan Avery, Korey Rowe and Jason Bermas.

When will you be correcting the mistakes I've pointed out?

When are you going to show the slightest regard for the truth about 9/11?

When are you going to learn what investigators do, and perhaps talk to a few?

When are you going to apologize to the families of the victims you've insulted?

I assume that sales of "Loose Change" and related merchandise will stop immediately, out of respect for those who do real work in the real world to learn the "truth" about events, and out of respect for the living and dead victims of 9/11, to whom your ignorant and cruel production is dedicated.

Yes, you can get information here, the same kind that's in "Loose Change."

One of these things is not like the others...

Nate, I'd like a word with you.

With this video you've shown NO respect for the truth or for people who care about truth.

Again and again, you've shown that you will believe absurd stories rather than evidence.

You can't be bothered to check the simplest of facts about 9/11.

Why doesn't the truth matter to you?

Are you men enough to admit your mistakes and correct them?

What's it going to be?

Please let them know what you think:

Speak out on the Loose Change Online Forum

Dylan Avery email Korey Rowe email Jason Bermas email

From Dylan Avery:

"Do not e-mail me about the following things:

1) The Pod/missile/flash being removed from the [sic]

2) The B-52 error

3) Where the passengers are. I wish I knew, but I do not, and have nothing but theories."

Hmm. He might want to start "investigating" that.

"Finally, I receive a large amount of e-mail these days.If you want a response, try and keep it as quick and concise as possible. At the very least, know that I read every single one."

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